Former Halo and Destiny producer says live service model is 'much better for developers and players' than the '$60 boxed product model'

GamesBattle RoyaleSuperviveFormer Halo and Destiny producer says live service model is ‘much better for developers and players’ than the ‘$60 boxed product model’When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission.Here’s how it works.

When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission.Here’s how it works.

Concept art for Supervive, a new MOBA-like battle royale game from Theorycraft Games.(Image credit: Theorycraft Games)

Supervive artwork

Joe Tung, CEO and co-founder of developer Theorycraft Games, started out his career in games as the lead producer on Halo 3 before moving on to be executive producer on Halo: Reach and Destiny at Bungie. In an interview with PC Gamer promoting his newMOBA-like battle royale game Supervive, Tung said that during his time at Bungie he had to make decisions that “were not in the best interest of players” and that a lot of E3 demos at the time (though not necessarily Bungie’s) showed off “bullshit vaporware.” The problem, he thinks, is the whole “boxed product model.”

After leaving Bungie in late 2012, Tung joined Riot Games to work on League of Legends, which gave him his first experience of working in the world of free-to-play live service games. When he left Riot in 2020 to found Theorycraft Games, he knew he wanted to create a free-to-play live service game because he believes “the games as a service model is so much better for developers and players.”

“I always felt like in the $60 boxed product model that I was having to make decisions that were not in the best interest of players,” said Tung. “It was in the best interest of, how do we sell as many copies in the first 48 hours as we can? One of the huge strengths of the games as a service model is you can be long term, you can think long term in terms of what is best for the player, and how does that overlap with what is best for the company? I think it allows you to make much, much, much better decisions overall.”

When asked for a specific example of one of these non-player friendly decisions, Tung recalled the days of E3 press conferences and the demos that came with them. While not directly saying that the E3 showcases for any of the games he worked on could be categorized this way, he said that a lot of E3 builds for games featured things that would never be in the final released product.

“I would wager that any developer who has ever worked in the $60 box product model, up until the point where E3 was cancelled, has a story about the E3 build,” said Tung. “It’s like, let’s jam as much bullshit vaporware into the build as we can in the next three months because we have to have a huge showing at E3 because it’s our one opportunity to talk to our audience before we launch the game.

“I would have to wager that some hugely significant percentage of those E3 efforts ended up on the cutting room floor because they were half-baked and caused people to crunch and really have to make huge sacrifices to get it in. But I bet a bunch have never even made it into the game because of the way that you develop those things. So that’s my favourite example of hugely impactful decisions that were not about what is best for the player.”

There is also a third path which has been getting attention lately. Helldivers 2 has been held up this year as a successful example of the middle ground between the free-to-play model and the $60 or $70 game—the hit co-op shooter costs $40. Sony is taking the same approach with upcoming PvP hero shooterConcord.

The biggest gaming news, reviews and hardware deals

With Supervive, Tung says the goal is to build a live service game that you can play for 10,000 hours over the course of years. I’m 9996 hours away from being able to tell you if that’s realistic, butgiven its solid foundationI wouldn’t be surprised if some players rack up that total eventually.

More about battle royaleDon’t stress, Epic Games says you can still unlock Fortnite’s Xbox-exclusive Master Chief skinJohnny Silverhand is coming to Fortnite and yup, he’s got a suitcase nukeLatestTencent says it’s not a Chinese military company and is willing to sue the US Department of Defense if it isn’t removed from a blacklistSee more latest►

More about battle royaleDon’t stress, Epic Games says you can still unlock Fortnite’s Xbox-exclusive Master Chief skinJohnny Silverhand is coming to Fortnite and yup, he’s got a suitcase nuke

More about battle royale

Don’t stress, Epic Games says you can still unlock Fortnite’s Xbox-exclusive Master Chief skinJohnny Silverhand is coming to Fortnite and yup, he’s got a suitcase nuke

Fortnite skin for Master Chief from Halo

Don’t stress, Epic Games says you can still unlock Fortnite’s Xbox-exclusive Master Chief skin

Johnny Silverhand in Fortnite

Johnny Silverhand is coming to Fortnite and yup, he’s got a suitcase nuke

LatestTencent says it’s not a Chinese military company and is willing to sue the US Department of Defense if it isn’t removed from a blacklistSee more latest►

Latest

Tencent says it’s not a Chinese military company and is willing to sue the US Department of Defense if it isn’t removed from a blacklist

Tencent HQ

Tencent says it’s not a Chinese military company and is willing to sue the US Department of Defense if it isn’t removed from a blacklist

See more latest►

Most PopularIf you missed it over the holidays, this noir Half-Life 2 mod turns you into a hardboiled detective in Prohibition-era ChicagoPath of Exile 2 players are calling foul on Elon Musk’s high-level hardcore character after he streams his struggles with core game mechanicsAlan Emrich, the game designer and writer who coined the term ‘4X,’ has diedTrack down a missing person in this ‘Geoguessr-inspired detective game’ set on an alien planetOld meets new as classic MMO players worship a famous Vtuber via gifts of bones so she can max out the Prayer skillHyper Light Breaker will cost $30 and for a limited time come with a free copy of DrifterFallout season 2 filming delayed due to massive LA firesAssassin’s Creed Shadows is delayed again ‘to better incorporate player feedback gathered over the past three months’The Freewrite Wordrunner with a built-in word counter might be the keyboard to look out for if you want to improve your writing process’I created it, let me move on’: Ex-Cloud 9 player, the Overwatch team whose blunder inspired the infamous ‘C9’ slang, watches in horror as the term moves onto Marvel RivalsLenovo’s rollable laptop screen isn’t just a CES party trick—you’ll be able to pick one up yourself in June

Most Popular

If you missed it over the holidays, this noir Half-Life 2 mod turns you into a hardboiled detective in Prohibition-era Chicago

Path of Exile 2 players are calling foul on Elon Musk’s high-level hardcore character after he streams his struggles with core game mechanics

Alan Emrich, the game designer and writer who coined the term ‘4X,’ has died

Track down a missing person in this ‘Geoguessr-inspired detective game’ set on an alien planet

Old meets new as classic MMO players worship a famous Vtuber via gifts of bones so she can max out the Prayer skill

Hyper Light Breaker will cost $30 and for a limited time come with a free copy of Drifter

Fallout season 2 filming delayed due to massive LA fires

Assassin’s Creed Shadows is delayed again ‘to better incorporate player feedback gathered over the past three months’

The Freewrite Wordrunner with a built-in word counter might be the keyboard to look out for if you want to improve your writing process

‘I created it, let me move on’: Ex-Cloud 9 player, the Overwatch team whose blunder inspired the infamous ‘C9’ slang, watches in horror as the term moves onto Marvel Rivals

Lenovo’s rollable laptop screen isn’t just a CES party trick—you’ll be able to pick one up yourself in June

HARDWARE BUYING GUIDESLATEST GAME REVIEWS1Best Steam Deck accessories in Australia for 2025: Our favorite docks, powerbanks and gamepads2Best graphics card for laptops: the mobile GPUs I’d want in my next gaming laptop3Best mini PCs in 2025: The compact computers I love the most4Best 14-inch gaming laptop: The top compact gaming laptops I’ve held in these hands5Best Mini-ITX motherboards in 2025: My pick from all the mini mobo marvels I’ve tested1Thank Goodness You’re Here! review: An anarchic treasure trove of jokes and skits2Shiren the Wanderer: The Mystery Dungeon of Serpentcoil Island review—like juggling chainsaws on horseback3WD Black SN850X 8 TB NVMe SSD review4Ikea Utespelare desk review5Asus ROG Harpe Ace Mini wireless mouse review

HARDWARE BUYING GUIDESLATEST GAME REVIEWS

1Best Steam Deck accessories in Australia for 2025: Our favorite docks, powerbanks and gamepads

A bunch of the best Steam Deck accessories on a blue background.

1Best Steam Deck accessories in Australia for 2025: Our favorite docks, powerbanks and gamepads

Best Steam Deck accessories in Australia for 2025: Our favorite docks, powerbanks and gamepads

2Best graphics card for laptops: the mobile GPUs I’d want in my next gaming laptop

Best graphics card for laptops: the mobile GPUs I’d want in my next gaming laptop

3Best mini PCs in 2025: The compact computers I love the most

Best mini PCs in 2025: The compact computers I love the most

4Best 14-inch gaming laptop: The top compact gaming laptops I’ve held in these hands

Best 14-inch gaming laptop: The top compact gaming laptops I’ve held in these hands

5Best Mini-ITX motherboards in 2025: My pick from all the mini mobo marvels I’ve tested

Best Mini-ITX motherboards in 2025: My pick from all the mini mobo marvels I’ve tested

1Thank Goodness You’re Here! review: An anarchic treasure trove of jokes and skits

Thank Goodness You’re Here review

1Thank Goodness You’re Here! review: An anarchic treasure trove of jokes and skits

Thank Goodness You’re Here! review: An anarchic treasure trove of jokes and skits

2Shiren the Wanderer: The Mystery Dungeon of Serpentcoil Island review—like juggling chainsaws on horseback

Shiren the Wanderer: The Mystery Dungeon of Serpentcoil Island review—like juggling chainsaws on horseback

3WD Black SN850X 8 TB NVMe SSD review

WD Black SN850X 8 TB NVMe SSD review

4Ikea Utespelare desk review

Ikea Utespelare desk review

5Asus ROG Harpe Ace Mini wireless mouse review

Asus ROG Harpe Ace Mini wireless mouse review

The biggest gaming news, reviews and hardware deals#

The biggest gaming news, reviews and hardware deals